Forum Activity for @bob-reinsel

Fret Markers

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

As a player, and builder, I think the fretboard should be a smooth as possible.  I don't install fret markers on dulcimers, but if I did, they would be inlaid, and planed, or scraped, level with the surface.

I just measured the crown of the fret wire that I use for dulcimers (very light) which is about 1.25 mm.  Anything sticking up on the fretboard would be felt under the fingers, which might be intentional, but could also unintentionally cause a buzz, or work as a fret itself.

If a tactile guide was needed I would probably add it to the edge of the fretboard.

Fret Markers

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

@matt-berg  ...genius!  

"Floating" Fretboards

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Bill -- they're all glued to the top.  It's just that floating FBs have the area under the bridge separated.  IIRC floating a dulcimer fretboard does not have "significant" effect.  Whatever "significant" means;  almost no one builds floaters these days.  That was one of the post-revival ideas of Howie Mitchell I think.  These days many builders offer arched fretboards which significantly reduce the amount of FB-to-top contact while still supporting the fretboard for its entire length.

If you can find the archives of EverythingDulcimer, I believe that Richard Troughear, from Australia -- who for years had an on-going series of Experiments which he posted there -- did an experiment with the same body with different FBs including a floater.  Almost no other builders conduct true scientific investigations into various aspects of dulcimer construction; rather they give us quantitative, not qualitative comparisons -- feelings not numbers.

updated by @ken-hulme: 01/04/21 06:55:55AM

"Floating" Fretboards

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

I know there are builders who "float" their fretboards. I am sure there are discussions on methods and pros and cons for this.  Have  any builders made a comparison of floating versus glued to top? Thanks 

Bill R

Fret Markers

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Why not try indented markers that are slightly below the surface.  They would be tactile and not interfere with a noter!

Blue Lion Dulcimers why so Special?

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

I’ll know sometime this week..... ;-)

Fret Markers

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

But we don't wrap our hands around the finger board /fret board on a dulcimer. There is no back. The markers I have come across are unobtrusive, you can feel them, they don't interfere with a noter, either they are just outside the proper position for a noter, or they are too "slippery" to be a problem. We are not talking a square wall and less than a 2mm rise, enough to feel, not enough to interfere. In fact they are usually not higher than the string itself.

updated by @nathina: 01/03/21 08:13:19PM

Fret Markers

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

I've heard of tactile position markers on the back or top of the neck on guitars, so that you can feel with your hand where you are on the fretboard, but I've never seen anything like that on the fingerboard itself.

Fret Markers

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

They can be fancier, rubies, sapphires. depends who the dulcimer is being given too or was given too. There are some interesting instruments among European royalty. I haven't seen them added to really narrow fret boards that were specifically for noters. Rubys are not expensive, used for jeweled watches and clocks. Same with sapphires. Low grade diamonds are even cheap enough to use as fret markers.

updated by @nathina: 01/03/21 07:57:31PM

Fret Markers

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

My noter tip would crash into anything closer than the middle string. You mean like those little stick-on circular plastic jewels kids put on their faces? I'd think they'd get in the way of any smooth sliding by either fingers or noters. I suppose a very gentle slow player might not have a problem with them.

Fret Markers

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Actually those for the blind are placed just outside of proper noter placement for the melody. They are sloped on all sides and do not create an obstruction to fingers.

Fret Markers

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

I would think that raised fret markers could interfere badly especially with noter playing, particularly if they were located between the melody string(s) and the middle string. That'd be bad!

Besides, on any dulcimer other than a chromatic one, if you're not looking while playing anyway then raised fret markers are already there... they're called frets.  ;)

updated by @strumelia: 01/03/21 06:08:21PM

Fret Markers

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

And then there's the Chromatic Dulcimer with fret markers on EVERY Diatonic fret and an inlay at the second octave ...  (I named this one "Dotty")

updated by @bob: 01/03/21 05:08:44PM

Recommendations on capos

Dulcimer Resources:TABS/Books/websites/DVDs

Like Dusty said, the Ewing capos are a good value.

Terry McCafferty now makes some really nice capos for a little more. I have since purchased 2 of his. Nice mechanism, perfect pressure.....my new favorite dulcimer capo. 

https://www.mccaffertydulcimers.com/capos

Fret Markers

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Yes, you can have fancy decorative inlay work on a fretboard.  And you can also have fret markers.  Those are clearly two different things. 

Obviously, decorative fretboards are pretty.  (Don't we all love that long-stem red rose on the Blue Lions?)  And if the decoration varies up and down the fretboard, then it might serve the purpose of fret marks, but only for the owner.  Anyone else grabbing that instrument for the first time would have no idea what's going on.  That's why there are standards.  The standard fret marking pattern of 3, 5, and 7, means that I can borrow anyone's instrument--or switch among the several that I own--and know at a glance where I am on the fretboard, even if there are one or two extra frets.  That obvious advantage cannot be overstated.  If one of my instruments were marked at 3, 5, and 7 and another at 2, 4, and 6, and another at 1+, 3, and 4, those fret markers would lose their purpose and would have to be ignored altogether.  They would confuse rather than clarify.

So that brings us back to the original post, which was about the proper placement of fret markers, not decorative inlay.  An individual player can request fret markers anywhere s/he wishes.  Fret markers do not change the sound of an instrument.  But anything other than the standard pattern would confuse anyone else.  I would strongly urge luthiers to either use no fret markers or use the standard pattern, unless, of course, they are responding to a specific request for a custom dulcimer.  And again, for a diatonic fretboard, there is no need for fret markers anyway since the pattern of whole and half steps tells you exactly where you are on the fretboard.

I personally would not be able to play with raised fret markers at all.  As you slide from one chord position to another, you need the fretboard to be as smooth as possible.  And even when not sliding, you want your touch on one fret to be identical to the touch on another fret.  There would be no way to play with any speed with an inconsistent touch on the fretboard.  There is a reason why everyone uses inlay both for fret markers and for decoration.

Fret Markers

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

I'll add something else. What about raised fret markers. The purpose is to allow the player to know what fret they are on without looking. Thus eyes can be on the strum or picking, or music. These markers do not interfere with the strings. Simply provide sensory feedback.

Fret Markers

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Interesting discussion! 

Yes we all agree that 'fret markers' or fret board inlays can be decorative or utilitarian, or a combination of the two.

But just for the sake of argument-  if we put aside inlays and decorations that are for decoration only.... then does the very term 'fret markers' imply that they are marking frets in some purposeful utilitarian way?  Is the purpose and definition of a 'fret marker' by its very nature to mark/differentiate a fret so as to enable the player to more easily tell one fret from its neighbor frets?

--------

I mean, you could have the standard of a simple dot inlay on certain frets (say 3, 5, 7, 10). Some might say that was all practical purpose without any decorative intent. If they were inlaid abalone of something you could say they were practical makers that were decorative as well.

But if you had those exact same dots on every fret they would not differentiate any fret from the others. They would have no practical purpose to differentiate certain frets, only a decorative purpose. You could have fancy leaves or vines on every fret and if they were all the same visually for every fret then they would be only decorative.

OR, you could have inlays on every fret but maybe on the 3, 5, 7 etc they could be larger or fancier. Then they'd fall back into having the practical purpose and maybe decorative as well.

I would put forth the thought that a 'marker' implies marking something so that it is recognized and stands out. And 'decorative' implies simply visual embellishment. But you could have 'markers' that are also decorative. But if they are all the same on every fret then they are simply decorations and not 'markers'.

What do you think?

Recommendations on capos

Dulcimer Resources:TABS/Books/websites/DVDs

I once spent over $60 on a fancy brass capo that works almost as well as the $20 ones Ron Ewing has been selling for decades. No one said logic was my strongest attribute.

updated by @dusty: 01/03/21 01:45:56PM

Fret Markers

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Could be both decorative and/or useful, depending on the design.

Fret Markers

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

One word of caution to those who use stickers on their fretboards-
There are good products for removing sticker residue once you've decided to remove longtime stickers. However, few people take into account that wood darkens over time when exposed to light- even normal room light while playing. If you leave stickers on for a year or more, when you remove them you may find that the wood is lighter colored under the stickers, thus you are left with unsightly 'ghost' marks where the stickers used to be. These marks don't even disappear when you rub oil on. I've seen these poor dulcimers on Ebay with their ugly light colored rectangles up and down their fretboards. So, consider removing fret board stickers after your initial learning period, before they create permanent cosmetic damage.

Fret Markers

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Not sure everyone agrees with minimalistic fret markers.  https://www.pinterest.com/deachasuravanic/fret-markers/  Besides, what is wrong with decorations?  (In case it wasn't clear, I am laughing a little at this discussion.)  Fret markers are very much the choice of the luthier/musician.  I have made instruments with no fret markers and a 4 equidistant chromatic dulcimer with both dulcimer and guitar fret markers so many more people could play!

Recommendations on capos

Dulcimer Resources:TABS/Books/websites/DVDs

I think you can find plans on the internet for the capo Ken Hulme describes. If you want to buy a capo you might try Folkcraft or Prussia Valley. I imagine the shipping costs depend upon where you are in Canada.

Here is a link to what one you can make yourself would look like: https://www.etsy.com/listing/161049441/dulcimer-capos?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=dulcimer+capo&ref=sr_gallery-1-7

Or you can order one from this seller or others.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

updated by @ken-longfield: 01/03/21 09:40:15AM

Recommendations on capos

Dulcimer Resources:TABS/Books/websites/DVDs

Best or cheapest?  You can make a perfectly adequate capo from a couple dollars worth of materials from your local DIY store -- a 1/4-20 bolt, a wing nut, a short piece of rubber/plastic tubing, and a couple scraps of wood.  Or you can spend upwards of $30 plus shipping for a capo that looks sexy and also holds the strings down.

Fret Markers

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Lisa has it right.  Too many fret markers, like Matt apparently does, are no longer meaningful, merely decorative.  The  original intent of the fret marks is/was to indicate to the player significant points in the fret pattern, not just decorate the bare spaces between the frets. 

Fret Markers

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Well, when I first started, I put stickers with 1,2,3,4... on each fret, that helped.  Actually, I think fret markers help develop a pattern in a person's mind.  After playing for a couple years, I realized I didn't look down at the fret board anyway, so maybe everyone should have removable fret markers so when they become extraneous, you can remove them?

Fret Markers

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Which brings up the existential question... if one were to put a fret marker on every fret- what purpose would it serve?

Fret Markers

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Wow, I hope this group never dissects one of my instruments.  Not only do I put fret markers at 3-5-7-10-12, I also put a marker under the frets at 1+,6+,8+ and 13+.  Guess it all depends on what the builder prefers!!  Never noticed that the placement of fret markers influenced the sound of the instrument.  (-:

Recommendations on capos

Dulcimer Resources:TABS/Books/websites/DVDs

Any suggestions on the best place to get a capo? I'm in Canada, so shipping costs will be a factor.

Fret Markers

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Bob, what you need to do is make the dot really big, and engrave "Don't blame the builder" on it!

Fret Markers

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

I had a customer ask for her build to have a position dot at the first fret.

Well, hope people in the future don't think that was my idea

Fret Markers

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

 

True, Ken.  Those are the octaves of the 3 and the 5.

I, too, find it interesting that there is no 8+.  I understand not adding the half frets on smaller scale instruments, since the frets get so small, but on a full-size dulcimer most people want the second octave to mirror the first.  There is a 13+ fret, after all.

Fret Markers

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

And 10 and 12, also. There is no octave for the 1 1/2 which would be 8 1/2.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Fret Markers

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Yes, that dulcimer has frets at 1+ and 6+.  But notice that the fret markers are still at 3, 5, and 7.

Fret Markers

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Here is a Mcspadden with I guess 1.5 6.5

Hearts Of The Dulcimer Podcast In Its 5th Year

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Hearts of the Dulcimer Podcast - Episode 49 
Stay Home and Sing with the Dulcimer: with Aubrey Atwater

https://dulcimuse.com/podcast

Here’s another stay home and play dulcimer episode created during the COVID-19 pandemic. Aubrey Atwater shares tips on how to improve singing and singing with the dulcimer.

You can listen to all the  Hearts of the Dulcimer Podcast  episodes directly on our website:  https://dulcimuse.com/podcast  or in most podcast apps.

Every episode has its own resource page with photos, videos, and song lists.

Here's the resource page for this episode: https://dulcimuse.com/podcast/resource/049.html

Thanks for listening!

Cigar Box Guitar

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

Sounds real good ,  Bob

Cigar Box Guitar

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

Soundin' good, Bob!

Cigar Box Guitar

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

That's way nicer than most cigar box guitars I've seen and heard, Bob. Niiiice!

Cigar Box Guitar

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

Really cool! Nice job on it.

Cigar Box Guitar

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

Hey, go for a socket!  Merle Watson used a Craftsman.  :)